Suggestion for Video Capture Card?

A forum for discussing hardware related news, help, rumors, etc...

Moderators: boat, rickh

User avatar
Cobra
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:39 pm
Location: Western North Carolina
Contact:

Post by Cobra » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:56 pm

Oh, yep, the ATI All In Wonders have svideo in on a ah what do you call it where the inputs are on a dropped cable.

Anyway, I have been using the svideo in and then editing them with Pinnacle Studio 9 and then burning whatever you want.

But the thing is I am bringing the dv into the ATI's TV software and saving it as a 640x480 mpg then loading it into Studio.

Th software that came with the camera has the ability to use firewire in.
And Studio as well.

I thought firewire was the thing to have at one time, maybe Apple had us believing that. I dunno.

User avatar
boat
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2753
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

Post by boat » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:16 pm

yeah, s-video is just for a video signal. firewire/usb are for data. so if ur transferring with s-video, you would still need to run a audio signal too by whatever means. a firewire/usb transfer should consist of the whole sha-bang, video and audio. plus a "data" transfer would be a raw feed, whereas a s-video+audio would probably have to be encoded (ie, the data tranfer is aready encoded). so theoretically, a "data" transfer would be faster since you dont have to encode...kinda like having two computers on a network or direct link and copying a file from one pc to the other. :? or i gues maybe a better way to put it is that when you do the svideo method, you have to wait in real time to transfer it to your computer because it has the coincide with the video playback, ie, an hour long video would take an hour to transfer via video signal method. and like metioned above, the firewire/data method would be like downloading an mp3 from your mp3 player to your computer. :?

...if any of that makes sense and wasnt too jumbled/hit-n-miss... :oops: :lol: :P ;)

User avatar
KaptainSkitzo
Ole Barnacle
Ole Barnacle
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Balmer, Merlin
Contact:

Post by KaptainSkitzo » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:38 pm

I could follow that. Then again, I'm strange and that could mean something....
Anyhow...the S-Video, like you mentioned, could enable faster x-fer...but not from something like a video tape. That's one you actually have to take the time to record. One minor problem I'm encountering, though, is that my recording cuts off after about an hour(not sure if it's exact, I haven't had the time to check)...I have it set through Mediacenter to record until I stop it. It's making recording movies a royal pain. I have more than sufficient HD space.
I'm transfering my VHS library onto DVD...something that is liable to take years.
"There are thousands of people out there who say I am *NOT* right in the head. There are thousands more out there who say I *AM* right in the head. The funny thing is, they all make these claims for the SAME REASONS!"
-Me.

User avatar
boat
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2753
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

Post by boat » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:38 pm

no, svideo is not faster, because any video signals more or less have to be done in realtime...svideo is just a better quality video signal...compared to like composite or coax.

svideo/composite/component/coax/{video signals} = realtime (ie, 1 hour of video must be done at 1x, which would take an hour to transfer/copy)

firewire/usb/{data signal} = faster due to the nature...essentially copying a raw data file from one device to another (for example, copying/transferring an mp3 from your mp3 player to your computer)

i dont see how any video signal transfer could be accelerated, unless once converted to digital it was slowed back down to its proper speed...but then theres other factors like sound, etc which wouldnt make it feasable.

User avatar
KaptainSkitzo
Ole Barnacle
Ole Barnacle
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Balmer, Merlin
Contact:

Post by KaptainSkitzo » Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:07 am

Bastage....so much for actually having followed that.... :o

Remind me to kill you on the server sometime this week.
:zap:
"There are thousands of people out there who say I am *NOT* right in the head. There are thousands more out there who say I *AM* right in the head. The funny thing is, they all make these claims for the SAME REASONS!"
-Me.

User avatar
Cobra
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:39 pm
Location: Western North Carolina
Contact:

Post by Cobra » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:12 am

Ok, I believe I said speed is not the issue.

This makes it sound like using the svideo is about the best I can get picture quality due to it ONLY carring the video.

As Boat said the usb/firewire is for data and thats no better than composite now that I think about it. Although using the svideo and audio inputs would be just as fast my way of thinking, cause its realtime. I mean how in the h#ll could you get something off the camcorder faster than it plays?!

Thanks for the help.

EDIT;

Oh I started thinking again. :o But is usb/firewire not digital in?

And svideo is analog, so this means svideo comes from a digital tape (mini dv) converts to analog than back to digital in the computer? ;)

So is there a loss in the conversion?

User avatar
[NME]T-Bone
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2818
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:00 pm
Location: Sharpsville, PA

Post by [NME]T-Bone » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:01 am

Cobra wrote:I mean how in the h#ll could you get something off the camcorder faster than it plays?!

Thanks for the help.
ummm... funny, i can d/l a 3 hour live concert in 40 minutes. :P

also, remember, if the player & recorder are running at the same speed it will play back normally. think of the high speed dubbing dual cassette decks. they'd play/record at 2x speed or faster and sounded like the chipmunks while recording, but play it back at normal speed and it sounded normal.
T-Bone

"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos
will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."

User avatar
boat
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2753
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

Post by boat » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:14 pm

short answer:

firewire/usb would be the fastest and best method.

:P ;)

lemme put it this way, though u did hit on it a lil bit witht he conversion thing...erm...say you wanted a copy of a cd on your computer in mp3 form....

svideo/composite type method (1x):
hook the cd player up to your soundcard, hitting record on the computer audio program, then hitting play on the cdplayer...then you have to wait for the cd to play in full as the computer records "real time" to a wave file, then once you have the cd copied in wave file form you use another program to convert those wave files to mp3's...when i say real time, i mean 1x

firewire/usb type method (50x):
popping the cd into your cdrom, and ripping the cd directly to mp3's at the max speed of the cdrom drive...say 50x

so you can record that 70 minute cd in no less than 70 minutes, and then take the time to convert it to mp3 or you can do it all in about 4 minutes (record/convert...well, its converting on hte fly). :P ;)

as far as picture quality between svideo and composite, svideo will (should) always be better, because it separates the color/luminance/yadda, whereas composite is jsut that, a composite signal of everyhting. if you dig deeper, you will find out that in terms of audio/video quality, separation is generally considered to give hte best quality. like if you dig around high end audiophile stuff, everything is separate...monoblock amps for each channel...separate cd player...separate preamp...separate phonograph. similar for video i beleeb. the typical video interface progression as of late in terms of picture quality is...

coax>composite>svideo>component>dvi (hdmi...whatever the tv hd one is)

now, if you use the firewire method, youre transferring everything at that 50x...video and audio, and its in raw form...not 100% sure of the formats, but you still might have to convert the dv transferred file in order to put it on cd, but the dv file that you transferred i think is edittable also, which is a good thing.

hope all that was understandable... :oops: :lol: :P ;) :drinking:

User avatar
KaptainSkitzo
Ole Barnacle
Ole Barnacle
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Balmer, Merlin
Contact:

Post by KaptainSkitzo » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:12 pm

Well, I've discovered something over the weekend that pretty much PI$$3$ me off....
Pre-recorded VHS tapes(as old as 1995) carry a protection signal preventing them from being copied onto DVD. Mediacenter WILL record them, and will PLAY them, but you can't burn them onto DVD. Also, anything recorded off of pay channels(HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc) carry the same signal. I'm backing up my VHS collection, so as not to wear them out.
GRRRRR!!!!
"There are thousands of people out there who say I am *NOT* right in the head. There are thousands more out there who say I *AM* right in the head. The funny thing is, they all make these claims for the SAME REASONS!"
-Me.

User avatar
[NME]T-Bone
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2818
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:00 pm
Location: Sharpsville, PA

Post by [NME]T-Bone » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:52 pm

KaptainSkitzo wrote:Well, I've discovered something over the weekend that pretty much PI$$3$ me off....
Pre-recorded VHS tapes(as old as 1995) carry a protection signal preventing them from being copied onto DVD. Mediacenter WILL record them, and will PLAY them, but you can't burn them onto DVD. Also, anything recorded off of pay channels(HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc) carry the same signal. I'm backing up my VHS collection, so as not to wear them out.
GRRRRR!!!!
psst... if i remember correctly, the way around this is to hook up the output from your tv to your computer, then play the movie on tv while dumping the output from tv to the computer.
T-Bone

"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos
will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."

User avatar
Cobra
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:39 pm
Location: Western North Carolina
Contact:

Post by Cobra » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:44 am

Still amazes me that you can get video/audio off of a tape faster than it plays. I understand that the usb/firewire is digital so is it possible that the camera knows your d/ling the data and it speeds up the tape physically.

Wonder if you can watch it during this?

Well maybe I should buy a firewire card after all. I know that the software I have has firewire capture. Pinnacle Studio does, and Adobe Premier ONLY captures via firewire and the software that Panasonic gave me has it.
So maybe their trying to tell me something. :D Ah man, and I was at Best Buy yesterday.

Wonder if the X-Box's sold like they hoped?

User avatar
[NME]T-Bone
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2818
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:00 pm
Location: Sharpsville, PA

Post by [NME]T-Bone » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:16 am

behold, the power of cheese! 8)

computers can do most anything. pretty soon they'll be streaming movies to your tv. no need to do it in real time... have a set top box with a hard drive in it, then send the raw vid file to it. then you can play right off the hard drive. tivo's and other pvr's already record/play from the hard drive. it's just taking it one step further.
T-Bone

"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos
will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."

User avatar
KaptainSkitzo
Ole Barnacle
Ole Barnacle
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Balmer, Merlin
Contact:

Post by KaptainSkitzo » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:31 pm

[NME]T-Bone wrote:
KaptainSkitzo wrote:Well, I've discovered something over the weekend that pretty much PI$$3$ me off....
Pre-recorded VHS tapes(as old as 1995) carry a protection signal preventing them from being copied onto DVD. Mediacenter WILL record them, and will PLAY them, but you can't burn them onto DVD. Also, anything recorded off of pay channels(HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, etc) carry the same signal. I'm backing up my VHS collection, so as not to wear them out.
GRRRRR!!!!
psst... if i remember correctly, the way around this is to hook up the output from your tv to your computer, then play the movie on tv while dumping the output from tv to the computer.
I'm poor....my TV doesn't have an output. :(
"There are thousands of people out there who say I am *NOT* right in the head. There are thousands more out there who say I *AM* right in the head. The funny thing is, they all make these claims for the SAME REASONS!"
-Me.

User avatar
Cobra
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:39 pm
Location: Western North Carolina
Contact:

Post by Cobra » Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:37 pm

[NME]T-Bone wrote:behold, the power of cheese! 8)

computers can do most anything. pretty soon they'll be streaming movies to your tv. no need to do it in real time... have a set top box with a hard drive in it, then send the raw vid file to it. then you can play right off the hard drive. tivo's and other pvr's already record/play from the hard drive. it's just taking it one step further.
I hadn't thought of that. So my dishnet pvr could d/l a movie I like and I could watch it when I want. Now how would they keep me from recording it to my computer then my dvd burner? :o ;)

Surely not. :angel:

User avatar
[NME]T-Bone
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2818
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:00 pm
Location: Sharpsville, PA

Post by [NME]T-Bone » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:09 pm

Cobra wrote:
[NME]T-Bone wrote:behold, the power of cheese! 8)

computers can do most anything. pretty soon they'll be streaming movies to your tv. no need to do it in real time... have a set top box with a hard drive in it, then send the raw vid file to it. then you can play right off the hard drive. tivo's and other pvr's already record/play from the hard drive. it's just taking it one step further.
I hadn't thought of that. So my dishnet pvr could d/l a movie I like and I could watch it when I want. Now how would they keep me from recording it to my computer then my dvd burner? :o ;)

Surely not. :angel:
yup. d/l now, watch later 8)

drm (digital rights management) the tivo2 uses a broadcast flag. if a show has it's broadcast flag set, it can't be copied to another device. there are other forms of drm, one of which sony is being sued over currently (see the sony/bgm music post). like most copy protection, i'm sure there will be a crack for it sooner or later.
T-Bone

"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos
will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."

User avatar
boat
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2753
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

Post by boat » Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:53 pm

Cobra wrote:Still amazes me that you can get video/audio off of a tape faster than it plays. I understand that the usb/firewire is digital so is it possible that the camera knows your d/ling the data and it speeds up the tape physically.

Wonder if you can watch it during this?

Well maybe I should buy a firewire card after all. I know that the software I have has firewire capture. Pinnacle Studio does, and Adobe Premier ONLY captures via firewire and the software that Panasonic gave me has it.
So maybe their trying to tell me something. :D Ah man, and I was at Best Buy yesterday.

Wonder if the X-Box's sold like they hoped?
okies, put it like this then if your still perplexed about it...the video/audio that you recorded with your digital camcorder is stored in a digital format/file...say an mpeg file. so when you use hte firewire connection to transfer it to your computer its in pure digital form, like you are copying the mpeg file from the camcorder to your computer...and given this nature, no you cannot watch it at the same time.

but then if you use video out method, the camcorder has the decode the mpeg file to a audio/video signal, then hte computer has to then encode that signal back to mpeg.

what i think youre not grasping is that a digital camcorder records the info as a video file...if that helps any... :oops: :P

User avatar
[NME]T-Bone
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2818
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:00 pm
Location: Sharpsville, PA

Post by [NME]T-Bone » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:06 pm

give it up already dude. :rofl:
T-Bone

"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos
will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."

User avatar
boat
[NME] tried and true
[NME] tried and true
Posts: 2753
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

Post by boat » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:56 pm

must...inform!!! :bad-words: :P ;)

User avatar
Cobra
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:39 pm
Location: Western North Carolina
Contact:

Post by Cobra » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:41 am


okies, put it like this then if your still perplexed about it...the video/audio that you recorded with your digital camcorder is stored in a digital format/file...say an mpeg file. so when you use hte firewire connection to transfer it to your computer its in pure digital form, like you are copying the mpeg file from the camcorder to your computer...and given this nature, no you cannot watch it at the same time.

but then if you use video out method, the camcorder has the decode the mpeg file to a audio/video signal, then hte computer has to then encode that signal back to mpeg.

what i think youre not grasping is that a digital camcorder records the info as a video file...if that helps any... :oops: :P
Oh, well that makes sense. :D I bought a firewire card lastnight off Epay so I will let you know the outcome.

User avatar
Cobra
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Crusty Ole Barnacle
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 7:39 pm
Location: Western North Carolina
Contact:

Post by Cobra » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:46 am


yup. d/l now, watch later 8)

drm (digital rights management) the tivo2 uses a broadcast flag. if a show has it's broadcast flag set, it can't be copied to another device. there are other forms of drm, one of which sony is being sued over currently (see the sony/bgm music post). like most copy protection, i'm sure there will be a crack for it sooner or later.
Well I know for now I have recorded from the dish receiver so far no problem. :wink:
I did see on Google where Sony is being sued by the state of Texas over spyware on their cd's :D

Post Reply