What constitutes cheating?

Got a tip you think would benefit someone? maybe you know a good strategy for a particular map?

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KaptainSkitzo
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What constitutes cheating?

Post by KaptainSkitzo » Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:09 pm

This is an open ended question...since it was raised on EC1 tonight.

Someone(I forget who), thinks my tweeking of the HWs "chaingun tracers" constitutes cheating. Of course, going by the definition provided, "anything not default is cheating"...that would also mean that any/all custom sprays, models, etc...are considered cheating.
In any case, the tracers are there no matter what....they were built into the game. I just changed the colors to make them easier for my old eyes to see them. I said that it makes conc-aiming easier...but since concing is basicly an illusion....
For a while, I was using "TRON" nails(for nail grenade and nailgun)...It made them MUCH easier to see, but lagged the machine down a good bit. Some of my custom player models did the same thing. I got rid of those...
I'm just wondering about everyones thoughts on the subject.

Oh, and yes....I consider scripts(automatic doing of something skilled players can do manually) cheating.
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Post by boat » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:43 am

i dunno what league(s) ur in, but last time i checked around on some of them, the altered tracer values is somewhat of a frowned upon practice, and there is even a 'league' metamod plugin that forces tracer values to prevent it, and that plugin also forces certain file consitancy checks, like the explosion sprites, where people can install clear explosions, that doesnt hinder their site thru a firefight and the grenade click sound that makes it easier for people to hear the enemy priming or whatever. it comes down to a matter of, like u said urself, an anti-conc tweak of sorts... :-?

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Post by KaptainSkitzo » Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:55 pm

We're in TFL 5v5...

But anyway...I can see the clear exposions being considered cheating...and I agree. As for the click of an enemy priming a nade, the stock one works well enough for me. :D
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Post by boat » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:10 pm

what the tracer editting does is essentially a crude anti-conc type thing, which is what the issue is from what i understand. here is a post/link explaining some of the 'fixes' that that metamod plugin does.
Locked CVARs:
tracerlength 0.8
traceroffset 30
tracerspeed 6000

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Post by KaptainSkitzo » Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:58 pm

Well, honestly, I don't have a real problem with that. So long as it doesn't effect the tweeks beyond that game/server. Anything that actually re-sets my configs and writes them to my drive(not likely, I have all of my configs as read only), I have a problem with. To be perfectly honest, since conc'ing is an illusion anyway, and with a little working at it(I'm refering to practicing it), you CAN negate the effect. I've actually gotten quite good at it...mostly with Solly and Sniper. I hardly ever have a problem as Engie when conc'd. The tracers as HW give a negligable advantage...as most of the tracers still follow the pattern. I just see them a little easier with the blue ones thrown in as opposed to only the greyish ones.
I guess something else that could be considered a cheat, though...would be turning your monitors brightness up so you can see better in dark places(yes, I've done that too).

I guess what it boils down to, is weather it gives you an actuall advantage, or a compensational equality. Taking the arguement to a stretch, (but still being related to the arguement,) wearing glasses while playing could be considered cheating...as they improve your vision. Granted, no one but YOU knows if you are wearing glasses or not, and there is no way to detect it...BUT, in my definition(and I'm sure all of you will agree(except Nemmy, cuz he's a contrary little cuss ;) )) that would fall into the catagory of "compensational equality". Just as turning the brightness on your monitor up, or using the tracers. Hell, I use bright blue rocket-sprites, some would consider THAT cheating...even though it just looks cool, and gives no advantage at all.

Oh, and someone gave me a "BHop script", which I *DID* try out, just for the hell of it. It's actually nothing more than what you can do manually...and what I've BEEN doing manually. In fact, it slows you down if you aren't very adept at it. Needless to say, I won't be using it. I just wanted to see what all the broo-ha-ha was about. :roll:
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Post by Rork » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:02 pm

KaptainSkitzo wrote:Well, honestly, I don't have a real problem ........................................................................................................................................................................I have a problem ................................................................................................... I've actually gotten .........................................................................................................................................I.just ....................................................................................................... ..........................................................................................................................................................I....gues what it boils downto,is..........................................................................
..........................................................................................................
. .........................................................................................................
compensational equality. ...................................................Granted, .what all the broo-ha-ha was about. :roll:

I don't know about all that :lol: I look at it like this.. Play the way the game was meant to be played... ;) If it were part of the original Valve "System" then use it , if not don't.. Would you consider using a LCD a cheat? No, probably not ;) so the same should follow for turning the brightness up or down... What about using an AMD 2200+ opposed to an AMD 2800+,........ same thing, not cheating.. But... , if you use a "foriegn", not of the original Valve "System", scipt or sprite or whatever, then yes, I can see why some say "you" are cheating.. But in the end it's all just relative.. "Conceptual Equality" :P ;) .. What are the rules that everyone in the game are following..? If everyone has agreed not to use scripts and then someone does, well that person is considered to be cheating. Its all about the type of game play that is trying to be had by everyone... "The Rules" ..... If its not in the rules then don't do it, if it is then go ahead. Unless "said" rule states not to do it.. That why no one can conceive you are cheating.. And hence everyone has "Conceptual Equality".. :drinking: :P

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Post by KaptainSkitzo » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:24 pm

Alright, let's say for example, custom models and sprites are cheating...

EVEN IF(and if my case, this is true) models/sprites give NO advantage...
For example, my soldier model is of "Megatron" from the Transformers...gives NO advantage whatsoever...(There is a team coloring, so as to differentiate between teams)...how is that cheating? Same with my rocket sprite...It's blue, instead of white...Looks cool, but gives no advantage at all.
NOW, if you DON'T consider that cheating, there are instances of custom models/sprites that you would agree with me, could be considered cheating.
Case in point...there was a "Tron" "Nail" sprite...which instead of the little nail-shaped sprites, sent out a glowing "Tron Disc" for the nail. It looked neat, BUT, it gave an advantage as you could much easier see where those nails were going, and work to avoid them. You could also see them in a low-light setting(such as the basement on 2fort). I stopped using it when I discovered this.
I have a custom model/sprite for my crowbar...it's a TFC flag. Looks neat as hell, but actually is a disadvantage...it covers much more of the screen than the normal crowbar does. Would you consider THAT cheating? And if, by some queer logic you do...exactly how do you see it that way?

I do agree with you though, on at least one point. If everyone agrees to not use scripts, and someone does....they are cheating. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a BHop script, or a reload script. Its doing something you agreed not to.
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Post by Rork » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:22 am

KaptainSkitzo wrote:
Alright, let's say for example,................................................................
........................................."Megatron" .......................................................................I have a custom model/sprite for my crowbar...it's a TFC flag. Looks neat as hell, but actually is a disadvantage...it covers much more of the screen than the normal crowbar does. Would you consider THAT cheating? And if, by some queer logic you do...exactly how do you see it that way?

I do agree with you though, on at least one point. If everyone agrees to not use scripts, and someone does....they are cheating. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a BHop script, or a reload script. Its doing something you agreed not to.
:-? I was only making one point :-? ;) :P
Rork wrote: I don't know about all that I look at it like this.. Play the way the game was meant to be played... If it were part of the original Valve "System" then use it , if not don't.. Would you consider using a LCD a cheat? No, probably not so the same should follow for turning the brightness up or down... What about using an AMD 2200+ opposed to an AMD 2800+,........ same thing, not cheating.. But... , if you use a "foriegn", not of the original Valve "System", scipt or sprite or whatever, then yes, I can see why some say "you" are cheating.. But in the end it's all just relative.. "Conceptual Equality" .. What are the rules that everyone in the game are following..? If everyone has agreed not to use scripts and then someone does, well that person is considered to be cheating. Its all about the type of game play that is trying to be had by everyone... "The Rules" ..... If its not in the rules then don't do it, if it is then go ahead. Unless "said" rule states not to do it.. That way no one can conceive you are cheating.. And hence everyone has "Conceptual Equality"..

:drinking:

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